168 - Befriending Fear & Failure

Marie Ellis is a Sunday Times number 1 bestselling nonfiction ghostwriter and editor for books. She's led content strategies at top health publishers and in high-growth startups, and she coaches other writers to start or finish their books so they can reach their audience in meaningful ways. As the director of MUSE Content, a boutique content agency, she pulls from her two decades of experience to help businesses and individuals tell their stories. In her spare time, she writes fiction, lifts heavy weights, and performs improv.

To learn more, visit her website at musecontent.co.uk

0:00
Introduction and Overview of Marie Ellis

2:51
Understanding Fear and Failure

5:07
Living in the Present and Future

9:06
The Role of Failure in Learning

12:04
The Importance of Big Goals and Incremental Progress

18:18
Resiliency and Practical Tips for Overcoming Fear

28:48
The Power of Comeback Stories

29:35
Conclusion and Contact Information

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Transcript

Did You Know  0:00  
Did you know that brain science shows fear and failure are actually required for growth because your mind only builds new paths when you push through mistakes?

Intro  0:11  
Hello, action taker! Welcome to Live Blissed Out, a podcast where I have inspirational and informational conversations with business owners and subject matter experts to help you get the scoop on a variety of topics. Tired of hesitating or making decisions without having the big picture? Want to be in the know? Then this is the place to go. I'm your host, Marisa Huston, helping you achieve bliss through awareness and action. So let's get to it. Marie Ellis is a Sunday Times number one best-selling nonfiction ghostwriter and editor for books. She's led content strategies at top health publishers and in high-growth startups, and she coaches other writers to start or finish their books so they can reach their audience in meaningful ways. As the director of Muse Content, a boutique content agency, she pulls from her two decades of experience to help businesses and individuals tell their stories. In her spare time, she writes fiction, lifts heavy weights, and performs improv. To learn more, visit her website at musecontent.co.uk.

Sponsor  1:26  
Big thanks to SG Associates LLC, your trusted merchant solutions partner, for sponsoring today's episode. For reliable business payment services, visit them at sgapayments.com.

Disclaimer  1:39  
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only, and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. This podcast should not be considered professional advice.

Marisa Huston  1:53  
Marie, welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited to talk to you today.

Marie  1:57  
Thank you, Marisa. I'm so happy to be here.

Marisa Huston  1:59  
You know, I think the conversation we're going to have is going to be very informational and beneficial for our listeners. So I'd like to start with that in mind. What are the key takeaways that our listeners can expect to get from our conversation today?

Marie  2:14  
Today we're going to talk about fear and failure, which are two topics that are not necessarily ones that we always want to lean into, but I think that really grounding ourselves in what fear is and what there is to be afraid of and what to push past is what will get us all to where we want to be, no matter what path we're on in life.

Marisa Huston  2:37  
I completely agree, and I think fear is something that we all experience. I don't think there's anyone that can say they've never felt it, but I still believe that it's important for us to define exactly what we mean by fear.

Marie  2:51  
Yeah. So today, when we're talking about fear, we're really, I think, talking about the fear of failure because when you're setting out in business, in life, on a new venture, you're going to experience fear, and the fear is always that we're going to fail and embarrass ourselves. And fear is such an important part of why we're here. You know, we're here as humans because our ancestors were wired for fear. We're very sensitive creatures. We have to be sensitive to the lion in the jungle that might eat us, and we still have that. And so, I think, especially in our modern day world, we still have that nervous system that was so important to our survival. And knowing more about it and understanding it is, I think, the key to kind of like moving forward.

Marisa Huston  3:41  
Yeah, I look at fear as very similar to pain. I used to ask myself the question, "Why do we hurt if I poke myself? Why does it hurt? And I realize that it's a mechanism to warn your system that something's off, something's wrong. And then because you're getting that message, you're able to say, "Whoa, maybe I need to be doing something different. So it's kind of a warning sign, and I look at fear from that perspective. The problem really lies in when you let fear stop you, when you get paralyzed by it, when you say, "I'm not doing that because I'm so afraid I'm not even going to try. Because at that point, if you're not willing to at least attempt it, then you're basically stopping yourself from experiencing things. I don't know about you, Marie, but for me, fear doesn't necessarily have to be something really scary either. It could be something as simple as I go to an exotic restaurant and they serve a dish that I've never had before, and it is so off the charts that I'm so afraid to try it. It stops me from even trying it. So when somebody says I love this thing, I can't even give an opinion on it because I've never tried it. I don't even know what it tastes like. I have to take their word for it, and so it stops you from experimenting, learning, trying new things, and that could be a problem if that. It's a consistent way of handling life. If you apply that as a consistent way of handling things, that could really stop you.

Marie  5:07  
That's exactly it. And you know, I was listening to a podcast the other day, and the speakers on it were talking about how humans we tend to live more in the future. For example, if that meal comes that's unfamiliar, as you just mentioned in the restaurant, we're thinking about oh no, a future version of ourselves. What if I don't like it? What if it tastes gross? What if? What if? What if? Whereas animals aren't concerned about that; they're just in the present moment and kind of take things as they come. And I found that a really interesting distinction about us not living in the present so much, living in the future and how fear kind of is a projection into the future of some unknown outcome. But I think the important question to ask is wind the clock forward. What's the worst thing that could happen? And don't get me wrong because I'm a classic catastrophizer. So and I have a very vivid imagination, as I'm sure many people do, so you can come up with all sorts of wild scenarios. But when it comes to your kind of everyday life and things that you want to try, but you're afraid to because you're either afraid of failing or afraid of being embarrassed or something like that, I think it's a great question to ask yourself: What's the worst thing that could happen? Because usually it's not actually that bad. It's not that you're going to be eaten by a lion.

Marisa Huston  6:25  
I think we have to dip our toes, right, Marie? Because there's a difference between what's the worst thing that can happen if I jump off this plane with my parachute, you know, versus what's the worst thing that could happen if I eat this exotic meal that I've never had before. Very different outcomes, right? One could be a matter of life and death, and the other might not. Obviously, there's different levels. Don't you think that fear is like a muscle? Like you start small and you do little things, and then you go, "Wow, it wasn't as bad as I thought it was, and then go on and on and on until you start building confidence.

Marie  6:59  
That's exactly it. Facing fear is a muscle that you can cultivate over time, and also I think I tie this in with failure as well. Failing is a muscle that you need to flex, and the more you flex it, the more you get accustomed to dealing with it, and it's not so scary. It kind of removes the fear from it. A great example of this is I perform improv here in Bristol, where I live, and every couple of weeks I'm on stage performing scenes in front of a live audience where I have no script. My castmates and I don't know what the story is. We don't know what suggestions we're going to get from the audience, but we do know we have to tell a story that's cohesive and hopefully funny. And sometimes in improv, you fail. It's inevitable. You don't have a script. The more you get used to that idea, that you know what, if I fail, it's fine. I'm going to pick myself back up again, and I'm not going to kind of wallow in that failure. Knowing that you can do that, and believe me, it's something I've had to cultivate over time. Knowing that you can do that really kind of sets you free from being held back by that fear of failing, because you know that you know what. If I fail here, I know what the worst that could happen is, and it's not that bad.

Marisa Huston  8:14  
Yeah, and you know what? In my mind, I say to myself, failure is something that's so easy-it's so much harder to be perfect. Let's be honest. I mean, every time you try to accomplish something, especially if it's something new that you've never tried before, it's inevitable that you're going to do something wrong through the entire process. And you keep thinking to yourself, "No, no, this time I'm going to figure this out, and I'm not going to make a mistake. And you will, because it's just so much easier to make mistakes and fail. But at the end, if you understand that that's part of the process, if you accept that that's learning, I translate failure to learning. Oh, I just had a new learning experience, you know, and it just puts a positive twist to it. So I don't feel so terrible about what I did. But the key here is to take that knowledge and apply it so that you fail less, and then you just get better and better at it.

Marie  9:06  
Absolutely, I mean that's the thing, and I want to be really clear too because I talk about failure a lot on podcasts and in posts that I write because I've learned so much from my failures, but it doesn't feel any better. Like failure, we don't want. Right? We're not striving for failure. We want to succeed. If we're doing things, we have visions of ourselves in the future in our minds of us doing this thing and nailing it and being successful and being great at it. Of course, that's why we endeavor to do anything. It's not like we're setting out to fail, and it feels awful, no matter how used to the concept of failure is a lesson, and I talk about it a lot. But I still get worried about failing. It's not as if I don't. I don't want to put on a front and pretend like I don't worry about that because I do. And everybody who's great at what they. Do they worry about that as well? I recently went to a book launch for one of my favorite writers, Matt Haig. He's a writer based here in the UK, and he just launched his new book, *The Midnight Train* in the UK and the US. He went on this big book tour. This is his 25th book. You know, he's this multi-best-selling author. He's written across fiction, nonfiction, children's, adults, everything, and you would think, gosh, he really knows what he's doing. He's an expert at this. He's done this a million times. He's not worried. But he said at his book launch that this is his 25th book, but it still felt like his first one. He still had to go through the editing process with his editor, he said that this book was originally about something completely different than what it ended up being. You know, he had to go through the editing process, and sure, he said he rocked up to his editor with his first draft and thought it was perfect in every way, shape, and form. And his editor kind of relieved him of that illusion and pointed out all of the holes. You know, and then he went back to the drafting table and you know rewrote and re-edited, but for him it's the same as if it were his first book, and that was really interesting to me because you know I have this idea that by the time I've written my 25th book, I won't have these feelings of insecurity or worry that writers have. You know, am am I actually a terrible writer? But he does, and knowing that he does, and actually he's not the only writer I've heard say this. I go to the London Book Fair every year. I've heard multiple best-selling writers. They've sold millions of dollars and pounds of books, and they've said similar things. So that's kind of a comfort to me to know, like, hey, these amazing people who are at the top of the game in their field-they also have these fears and these worries. But the difference is that they don't stop, right? They keep going, they keep showing up despite that fear, kind of welcoming it in as like an expected guest. Ah, I see you're here again. Fear, come on, come have a cup of tea. I knew you'd be here, and then, just continuing forward, and I think that's the key.

Marisa Huston  12:04  
That is the key, and I love how you said that an unexpected guest, because that guest will be there. You can't kick it out. You have to learn to live with it and understand it, and understand that it's part of the process. As you were saying that, Marie, I was thinking about people who, for example, take on a hobby-it's very humbling because you know a lot of times you go into a hobby and you jump into it thinking you're going to create great things, and then you get frustrated because half of the stuff that you make is a hot mess. It just turns into a disaster, and you feel like you wasted time, material. You put all this effort in, and you got nothing to show for it. But the reality is, you do because you've learned what not to do. You know, you kind of analyze the situation, and you say, "What would I change? How could I have avoided that? How can I make this better? And the other thing too is to do the same thing over and over because I find that people who take on hobbies they like to do a million things. Let's say you do gardening instead of specializing in a particular type of gardening, you want to do it all. Well, then what happens is you end up failing all the time because you're never mastering a certain area, and so it's an incremental learning, like little steps, things that you can do slowly to build your confidence to get better. And then when you get really good at something, it doesn't mean you're not going to fail, but you'll fail less. You'll get better at it than most because you're doing it a lot. At that point, you can say, "Okay, I think I've mastered this. Now I want to take it to another level. But I think being realistic with your expectations is really critical, don't you?

Marie  13:43  
I do. I definitely agree with that. And also, I'll add a flip side to that, which is I love it when people have big, ridiculous goals. You know, there's the kind of the old adage, "Shoot for the moon. Even if you fail, you'll land among the stars. I think it's great to have really big goals. Just know that the path to getting there, as you said earlier, is going to be incremental, and the journey there will probably not end up as you expect it to be. It might be a little bit rocky. It might be a little bit up and down. But don't be afraid to have really big wild goals. I don't know. I say go for it. Do be kind to yourself, though. You know, don't expect to go from walking to sprinting. You know, overnight.

Marisa Huston  14:27  
Exactly. And those big goals, I agree with you, are so important. Like, let's say you want to build a dollhouse. Well, you're not going to just wake up one day and build a dollhouse. You probably want to learn how to make little pieces of furniture. Maybe make a little room and make that room really great, and then add the second room or whatever. Like you kind of build on it, but you still have the goal of a dollhouse. I think it's important to understand that there are little skills that you need to build on to be able to get to that big dream. And I think many people get frustrated. With themselves because they think, okay, I'm just going to build a dollhouse. It's going to be the perfect dollhouse, and I'm not going to make any mistakes, and it's all going to work out. And then when it doesn't, which chances are it won't, because you've never done it before, then you get frustrated and you say, oh, this isn't what I thought it was going to be, and you quit. And that's the problem that stops you from getting better. And really, the whole point is, if you let fear take over, you are the one that's putting yourself in a situation where you can't grow and you can't get better, and it stops you from moving forward.

Marie  15:31  
Yeah, absolutely. And also, I think too another benefit that you know maybe people don't think about is that when you're trying something new, especially for the first time. You know, when you become an expert at something, it's almost like it's become second nature to you. Those neural pathways in your brain have been forged a million times. You know what you're doing, right? You can almost do it automatically, which is great. You know, that's how you become an expert in something. But for your brain, your brain isn't getting much benefit from that, you know. Your brain is is wired for new things, and it's like, okay, yeah, I know this. But actually, doing new things that you've never done before, that are scary to you, that make you feel fearful of failing or or whatever it might be, that's a great thing for your brain. That's keeping your brain young, opening up those new pathways in your brain. So even if you think you have nothing to show for it, you actually do. It's really good exercise for your brain to be doing new things. And if it comes with a little bit of fear, you might stop and go, "Hey, this is uncomfortable, but this is actually good for me.

Marisa Huston  16:35  
Yeah, we're talking about fear here, and I kind of equate something else with it, and that's anxiety. And the reason we get anxiety is because we're anticipating a result that hasn't happened. We're imagining in our head that this is going to end up going this way, but it has actually not gotten there yet. But you're thinking it's going to get that way, and then you get anxiety because you're imagining things that haven't happened, and feeling is choking. Like you just feel like, oh my gosh, I can't do this, you know. And we have to kind of let ourselves understand that it's okay. This is all normal. That this is the process, and it's how we get better. If you think of all of it as like this is a learning experience, then you actually come out of it going, I am so glad I made that mistake because that taught me not to do this, or that taught me how to figure this out and get this better process going. It develops you as a person, and you get better.

Marie  17:32  
Absolutely, yeah.

Marisa Huston  17:33  
I think it's the expectations that we have of ourselves. Sometimes we're just really hard on ourselves, and we just think we're just gonna figure it out quickly, and I don't know about you, Marie, but I know for me it takes a while. And even when I'm good at something, or I feel like I've really gotten better, as I'm working on a project, I'm always asking myself, "Why am I doing this? You know, is there a reason why I chose this path, or is there a reason why I went with this method rather than this other method? Because the more you understand the process, to your point, your mind starts to really work in a way that opens up ideas, and it actually gives you better methods and better ways to improve rather than being stuck in a certain way because you feel comfortable. It's kind of getting out of that comfort zone.

Marie  18:18  
Yeah, absolutely, and it's practicing resiliency. You know, my husband and I talk a lot. We have two young children, and you know, we constantly are asking ourselves, how do you teach resiliency to a child or to other people? It's really difficult to actually to teach it to somebody else because it's almost something that you really need to experience. You really need to experience the feeling of being really scared to do something, almost not doing it, then doing it and somehow succeeding in some small way, whatever that might mean for you. And then that feeling of understanding: Oh my gosh, if I had stopped back then when I was afraid, I wouldn't be where I am now. The more experiences like that you have, I think that's what adds up to resiliency in your life, and it's going to keep you on such a good path no matter where you go. Because if you run into hurdles, dead ends, find yourself in a place you didn't think you'd be, the ability to kind of back up, maybe pivot a little bit, try again, try something new, try a new path that only comes with those like small micro learnings of resiliency over time.

Marisa Huston  19:25  
As you were saying all that, Marie, I was thinking I like to look at the end game too and say I really want to get there. And if you really want to get there, you understand that there are going to be bumps in the road. That's kind of how I look at it. You were talking about your kids, you know, maybe you taught them how to bike, and if you really want to learn how to bike, you probably have to accept the fact that at some point you're going to fall, and you're going to scrape your leg, and you're going to need a band aid and some antibacterial medication or whatever. It's just part of the game. But those bumps are worth it because I know in the end I'm going to get to bike for the rest of my life. I'm going to get to enjoy an activity. That I would otherwise have to give up forever because I was too afraid to learn, and so I think having that focus also really helps you tell yourself why am I doing this, what matters to me, and what am I willing to invest or give up or put in in order to get there.

Marie  20:18  
That's exactly it, because I think as well when we talk about fear and failure. Sometimes quitting something, stopping what you're doing, and pivoting and changing, in my mind, that's not failure. What failure is is giving up and not moving forward. Whereas knowing, kind of having that wisdom to say, you know what, this thing I'm doing isn't working for me, or this particular dream I had is actually not the dream I really have anymore. But this dream over here is actually the one I want, and it's a slight pivot from the path I was on. But that's okay because that's what I really want. That's what lights me up. Things like that can change over time, and kind of pivoting from one thing to another from my perspective, isn't failure. It's kind of finding a new path towards what it is that you want.

Marisa Huston  21:07  
Oh my gosh, I feel that exact same way, and I really feel like I wouldn't be who I am had I not tried different things. You think you want something, or you think something's very important to you, and then you actually get in the weeds and you realize, yeah, no, this is what I thought it was going to be. I'm not having fun anymore. But now that I know this, I realized X about myself, and now I want to try this other thing. And you have to let it play out.

Marie  21:34  
That's exactly right. And so for me, what this looked like, I was a child actor my whole life as a child, I was a professional actor touring the U.S. as a child, even, and my dream was to be an actor. And I lived in L.A. for several years, and I was a working actor there. And then I realized, you know what? The love that I had for theater is not working in this environment. I wasn't enjoying the actual realities of what it meant to be a working actor, to go to multiple auditions a day, and all of that. I actually didn't like it, and I went back to university and got my English degree and became a writer, and that's been my career now. But the great thing is, and I still do perform. I perform all the time here in Bristol, and I still do have that love. But what I gained from that other life of acting is those strong storytelling skills, and that's what I've loved. I loved telling stories, and so now I kind of took those skills and pivoted and realized what it was about that dream and that goal that I loved, and that's what I'm doing now. But there's no way I would have ever found it had I not gone on that path, it's just amazing what you can find. And of course, sometimes those realizations can be painful. It can be really hard, and you don't know what the right way to go is. But I think kind of listening to that inner voice saying, "That's really not right for me. That thing over there is calling to me. That's what I want to work towards. That can kind of help with that fear.

Marisa Huston  23:06  
Yes, absolutely. Given what you just said for our listeners, if there's one thing they can do right now, what can they do to get past it?

Marie  23:16  
So I think a great thing to do is to think about something that you want to do that you're afraid of. Maybe it's like running a 10k, or maybe it's performing improv in front of an audience, or maybe it's asking someone out, and you're afraid to ask someone out. Think about the thing that you want. Maybe like low stakes for this exercise, and go do the thing with the intention of failing, which is completely counterintuitive. But do the thing and fail at it. So I don't know. Maybe if you're doing training for running, you can schedule a run and make it a run that's like too far for you. You're gonna fail at it. It's okay. You're gonna get tired. Or if if it's fear of asking somebody out, go up to somebody who you don't know. You know, very low stakes. You maybe really want to go out for them. Ask them out to coffee with the intent of getting a no. And then ask yourself after that. Okay, am I okay? I did this thing that I was really afraid of. It didn't pan out, and I planned for it not to pan out, which is great. What's the worst thing that has happened now? It's not so bad. So if you do that thing and fail at it, you can know. Okay, well the worst has happened now. Now I can actually go for it without being afraid. Another suggestion I would have, and of course I'm very biased, is if there are any local improv classes where you live, take an improv class because I guarantee you, in that beginner improv class, they're going to teach you something called a happy. Fail, which is they have games that are designed to make you fail. Everybody's going to fail. It's impossible to win. It's impossible to succeed. You're going to fail, and then you practice celebrating that fail. And so you get into this mindset of, let's say, for example, I'm on stage and I I'm doing an improv scene in front of an audience, and I've totally bombed. Like I was not funny. I didn't work. Rather than kind of like shutting down and going inside myself, which the audience would see and would then feel sorry for me, which is like the worst thing that could happen. You just internally completely brush it off, and you come in with the attitude of like that didn't work, but I've got something else up my sleeve that you're gonna love, and you have this kind of understanding of failure baked into you, and you're rewiring your mind to think of failure not as something terrible, but as something to celebrate. Yeah. So improv class,

Marisa Huston  25:55  
I love it. I find too that the things that I expect to fail on, and I attempt to do, and then I actually succeed somehow. I get so excited because I had such low expectations. I expect it to be a disaster, and then I give it a try, and I'm like, "Hey, that actually worked out really well, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. So it's different from what you were saying, but it's also just getting yourself psyched to realize, I guess that failure is just part of the process. It's okay. To your point, we're aiming to do better. We're aiming to do the best that we can. But in order to get there, we're gonna have to fall a few times, and that's okay. It's just part of it. I find that it relieves you, and it makes you actually excited to do stuff because you think it would be worse than it was, and then you try it, and you're like, "Wow, that's really awesome! Just being able to experiment, being willing to try new things to grow, to develop, not let it stop you so much. I think it just opens up a whole new world.

Marie  26:57  
Yeah, absolutely. One last thing I would suggest that kind of helps steal you from this fear of failure. Something that really galvanizes me is reading about the rejections of famous writers who I love. So I mean, those stories of failure, like so many of my idols, failed and failed and failed. And reading about that and knowing that makes you go, "Hey, I'm in good company here. I'm fine.

Marisa Huston  27:27  
Absolutely true. We only see the best of people.

Marie  27:30  
Absolutely, and you know what? Everybody loves a success story, but do you know what we love better than a success story? We love a comeback story. We love learning about people who fell and got back up again, and that's the gold.

Marisa Huston  27:46  
I know it inspires me 100. I love it. In fact, I always root for the underdog. I always root for people that everybody has said no, they're never gonna make it, they're done, this and that, and then they come back, and I'm like, whoa! This is so exciting. I find that way more exciting than the people that we expect to win.

Marie  28:05  
Yes, same. And it speaks to something about who we are as humans, which is like we see ourselves in those struggles. We all struggle, and like you said, behind those success stories, the road was littered with failures, and that's important, I think, for all of us to know and understand that in order to get to these amazing places, you must fail along the way. That's just how it is.

Marisa Huston  28:29  
It sure is. There's no avoiding it, but you know what? We're not alone. We're in it together.

Marie  28:34  
Yes, absolutely.

Marisa Huston  28:35  
That's the key, right? So now, how does everybody get a hold of you? Can you let our listeners know who you are, or any information about reaching out to you, and how they get to know more about who you are and what you offer?

Marie  28:48  
Yes, absolutely. I'm a ghostwriter and developmental editor, and I'm also a book coach. So I help everyone from best-selling authors to new beginners who have never even written a book before. You can find me. My website is musecontent.co.uk. So that's muse as in the muses, m-u-s-e-content.co.uk, and I'm also on Instagram, which is at amused underscore Marie, and you can find me there talking about everything from book writing to improv to the plants that I accidentally kill.

Marisa Huston  29:28  
You and me both. Terrible. I try.

Marie  29:33  
I'm getting better though. I'm getting better.

Marisa Huston  29:35  
I am too. I'm improving. I mean, they used to be doomed. Now they at least they have a chance. So funny, and you help people all over the world, right? Even if you're based in the UK, anyone who needs your services can reach out to you.

Marie  29:50  
I do. Yes, most of my clients are in the US or the UK, but I am not averse to talking with somebody in Australia or New Zealand. I can make that work.

Marisa Huston  30:00  
Okay, great. It's nice to know that you can help people everywhere and at all levels too, which is wonderful because I think people hesitate. I think it's important to just have the conversation. So if they're thinking about it, they could just reach out to you and say, "Hey, can we talk? I don't know for the right fit, but I'd like to tell you about what my plans are and find out if you can help me.

Marie: 30:19
Absolutely.  I am open to everyone.  Don't tell anyone but new writers are my secret favorites to work with because they are so full of passion and there's just a lot of ground we can cover.  I'm here to help.  Come to me and we'll talk about books and storytelling and all of that.

Marisa Huston 30:35
Well Marie I can tell you I had such a wonderful time talking to you today.  I was so looking forward to it and I really appreciate all the insights you shared.

Marie: 30:45
Thank you so much, Marisa.  It was a joy to be here!

Outro  30:48 
That's a wrap for this episode of live Blissed out. Thanks to Marie Ellis for joining us and thanks for listening. If you have a question or comment for a future episode, all you have to do is go to www.speakpipe.com/LBOVM or click the link in the show notes to leave a brief audio message. If you find value in our show, please visit www.liveblissedout.com to reach out, subscribe and share on social media. This show is made possible through listeners like you. Thank you. So long for now and remember to keep moving forward.