130 - Stop misunderstandings and resolve conflict through the power of the Enneagram

In this episode, Margot Zaher shares how the enneagram gives you a roadmap for understanding what motivates and drives behaviors.

Margot is a Women's Empowerment Coach that helps female entrepreneurs and professionals conquer fear, remove self-limiting beliefs, tap into their inner power, and get into action to build rewarding and fulfilling businesses, careers, and lives! 

She is a certified Enneagram coach and relationship coach. She specializes in Enneagram coaching packages for both individuals and couples to help you become aware about your relationship patterns and triggers which block you from relationship bliss.

To learn more, visit https://www.margotzaher.com

Reference this podcast to receive a special $50 discount off of her Enneagram coaching packages.

In this episode we cover:

00:02:43   Enneagram Explained

00:05:39   What Makes The Enneagram Different

00:07:45   Understanding & Compassion

00:09:25   Natural Connectors

00:13:25   Inner Drive

00:14:38   Popular Types

00:18:02   Evolution

00:18:45   Triggers

00:22:34   Watch Outs

00:24:04   Communication Styles

00:24:54   Cultures

00:28:42   Ego

00:31:14   Collapse

00:33:18   Integration Points

Thanks so much for tuning in again this week. I appreciate you  🙂

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Special thanks to Margot Zaher for being on the show.

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Chapters

• 2:43 Enneagram Explained
• 5:39 What Makes The Enneagram Different
• 7:45 Understanding & Compassion
• 9:25 Natural Connectors
• 13:25 Inner Drive
• 14:38 Popular Types
• 18:02 Evolution
• 18:45 Triggers
• 22:34 Watch Outs
• 24:04 Communication Styles
• 24:54 Cultures
• 28:42 Ego
• 31:14 Collapse
• 33:18 Integration Points

Transcript

Did You Know  0:02  
Did you know that a country's culture can also be categorized by Enneagram types? The US has a type three achiever. France has been known as a type four individualist, Germany as a type six loyal skeptic, and Canada as a type nine Peacemaker. 

Intro  0:18  
Hello, action taker! Welcome to Live Blissed Out a podcast where I have inspirational and informational conversations with business owners and subject matter experts to help you get the scoop on a variety of topics. Tired of hesitating or making decisions without having the big picture? Wanna be in the know? Then this is the place to go. I'm your host Marisa Huston. Helping you achieve bliss through awareness and action. So let's get to it. In this episode, Margot Zaher shares how the Enneagram gives you a roadmap for understanding what motivates and drives behaviors. Margo is a women's empowerment coach who helps female entrepreneurs and professionals conquer fear, remove self limiting beliefs tap into their inner power and get into action to build rewarding and fulfilling businesses careers and lives. She's a certified Enneagram coach and relationship coach. She specializes in Enneagram coaching packages for both individuals and couples to help you become aware about your relationship patterns and triggers, which block you from relationship bliss. To learn more, visit www.margotzaher.com. Reference this podcast to receive a special $50 discount off of our Enneagram coaching packages. 

Disclaimer  1:32  
The information opinions and recommendations presented in this podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this podcast is done at your own risk. This podcast should not be considered professional advice. 

Marisa Huston  1:44  
Margo, welcome to the show. I appreciate you being here.

Margot Zaher  1:48  
Thank you. I'm very excited to be here today. Thanks for having me as a guest,

Marisa Huston  1:51  
I am really looking forward to talking about this subject matter which is essentially talking about how we analyze ourselves using a particular tool. To help us with that, I would appreciate it if you could explain to our listeners what we're going to be talking about today and why it matters.

Margot Zaher  2:10  
Today, we're going to chat about the Enneagram, the power of the Enneagram and how it really helps us enhance our communication connection. Instead of being in conflict with others in any type of relationship, whether it's a romantic relationship, business relationship, a family dynamic. So it really helps in all areas to enhance communication and connection.

Marisa Huston  2:31  
There are a lot of different tools out there that help us do that. Would you please explain to us exactly what an Enneagram is and why it's different from those other forms of measurement.

Margot Zaher  2:43  
So, the Enneagram is a model that really focuses more on our core behaviors and drives. The word Ennea means nine in greek and the word gram refers to a diagram or a model. And so it has really its roots back in antiquity could go as far back as Protagoras. So the idea behind it, why it's different is that it actually helps us see why we behave in certain ways. Instead of measuring our outward behaviors, it actually shows us the reason we're doing it, and the core fears, desires, and drives that make us do certain things in the world. And so that's what makes it different, actually, than a lot of these other kind of typing systems are more on how your outward behavior looks. 

Marisa Huston  3:32  
It's a form of awareness. right? Because how can you address things that you may be frustrated with, if you don't even know that there's a problem. And so this kind of enhances that understanding so that then you can decide, alright, this is probably what's causing this and so what can I do about that?

Margot Zaher  3:49  
Exactly. I think the first step in changing anything, and improving something is to understand why we're doing it, to have more awareness about it and to focus on understanding kind of those hidden roots, those hidden dimensions that push us or push someone else to behave in a certain way. And that's why I really love the Enneagram. It's been so impactful in my life. When I discovered what type I was on the Enneagram it really changed my way of being and allowed me to understand how I needed to shift in certain ways to achieve my goals in life and in relationship.

Marisa Huston  4:24  
I would imagine it's very eye opening. Because I think most of us do not understand ourselves very much. We behave in certain ways because we're used to that. That's just who we are. It's second nature for us. But we don't really understand the why behind why we do things, and then we get frustrated when things don't work out. And so having this inward reflection using this tool, is very helpful for us to then address those issues, right?

Margot Zaher  4:51  
Yeah, it really helps us understand. One of the things I love is that it helps us see the self sabotaging ways of being and see these behavioral blind spots that we take for granted. And we're just like this is just the way I am. And actually, we have a lot more control and ability to create more mastery in different ways in different areas of our life, if we really understand what's driving us to behave in certain ways.

Marisa Huston  5:18  
With the internet, for example, there are just so many different tools that we could use to look at ourselves, right? To reflect on who we are. And many of us enjoy it. It's almost like a game. You go in there, you answer a few questions and then you get a report. What makes your service different from the tools that are available online today?

Margot Zaher  5:39  
As a certified Enneagram Coach, I have a system in place to help people go through a step by step process to really get clear on which one of the nine Enneagram types they are. So basically, everybody has one core type, and one we call wing. And you can take an Enneagram test online. The challenge is that many people come back confused with quite a few high scores and don't know which one is theirs. And also, it doesn't make a lot of sense to them the results. And so I lead people through a 90 minute step by step process that really helps them get to the core of how they're behaving, and why they're behaving this way. And together, we're able to determine, really their Enneagram type. Many people I've worked with before have actually been mis typed by taking their own online typing systems, because it's so easy to just answer this more from a behavioral place. And an outward way of looking at things versus really asking the right questions. I've found it very hard myself to take an online test and get an accurate result even for myself. Does that make sense?

Marisa Huston  6:47  
Yeah, you just read my mind the word accurate? Yeah, you can take the test, and it'll give you some information but is it really valid? Many of us when we take test too, are we truly honest with the way we answer those questions?

Margot Zaher  7:00  
Right? Are we truly honest. And the second thing is we don't have an idea of what the system really means and what the model is about. And in the work that I do with clients they understand all the nine types and how they fit together and what really drives the different types. And so when they come out of an Enneagram typing session, not only do they understand themselves, and where they fall, but also the other eight types. And so they have a view, a vision of really the entire model and why it's so important, and also how they can use the model to evolve and to be successful at meeting some of their personal goals.

Marisa Huston  7:34  
Would you share an example of perhaps a situation where one of your clients reached out to you, and you've been able to help them through this Enneagram system.

Margot Zaher  7:45  
I do a lot of my work with couples. And that's why I think it's really helpful because I've had quite a few couples come to me and be like, well, I don't understand why my partner acts this way. I don't understand why he or she keeps doing this to me. I worked with a couple who were very upset at each other because they kept triggering each other. And they didn't understand why their partner was doing things, quote, unquote, to upset them. And when we did the Enneagram, typing both of them individually, I typed them and then we came back together for what I call the Enneagram analysis of the two types. They were able to see like, oh, that's not about me, that's just that they are a type one on the Enneagram. For instance, they are perfectionist. So they really care about things being accurate and precise and right and that they're not just trying to upset me by being this way. So the couple were able to have a lot more understanding about each other and compassion for each other and not take things personally. They were basically automatically more compassionate towards each other, and able to accept their differences instead of trying to change each other. 

Marisa Huston  8:55  
That makes total sense. And again, it goes back to that awareness because we're looking at it from our perspective, and we're just getting annoyed. This person is messy, or they're not respectful of my feelings, or whatever the situation may be. This puts it in perspective for you. Like you could really see why they're doing it and then it doesn't become this personal attack on you and it helps you then understand, alright, well, how do I avoid a trigger, for example? Or how do I communicate with this individual more effectively, so that we can push forward?

Margot Zaher  9:25  
Yeah, one of the things I totally love about the Enneagram. I do these matrixes, where I show you a couple of your core trigger, this is your partner's core trigger. This is your core fear in relationship, your core of conflict in relationship, your core need, what you really need from your partner, your core communication style. So basically, they're able to see within this very short timespan, 60 minutes together like wow, that's who my partner is. That's who I am. And then we go into what I call the watch outs. These are the things that you need to watch out for with each other that you're going to run across challenges. You're going to create conflict if you do these different things, because of the two ways your types interact. And these are the natural connectors that you have. The things that you naturally do with each other and can support each other. So you want to focus on where you naturally connect and how you can enhance those connections. And you want to look at how to avoid the watch outs basically, in your relationship so that you can devise strategies that break the unhealthy patterns and create more of the connection that you desire. 

Marisa Huston  9:25  
So you mentioned the perfectionist. Could you walk us through, for example, what are the core drivers? What do you watch out for? How do you connect with that person? And how do you validate them for that particular type?

Margot Zaher  10:42  
Yes, so the perfectionist, which is also type one, their core drive is to really do the right thing, to be good. They're always searching about how they can be good in the world, do good have a positive impact on the world, and be kind of that shining example in the world. So their focus is positive impact. They want to avoid at all costs, doing the wrong thing. What that comes down to, though, with the communication watch out is that if you are in a relationship with a perfectionist, or perhaps you know, it's a colleague at work, if you criticize them, the watch out basically is criticizing a perfectionist. They are already highly self critical, because they're monitoring their behavior as they go along. They're trying to make sure they do the right thing. And so if somebody from the outer world says something like, I can't believe you did this, that was completely wrong, that is a very triggering thing for them. This could lead to conflict, this could lead to a fight. So being criticized is really hard for the type one on the Enneagram.

In place of criticism, what do you do? How do you handle that?

So I call it a communication connector. So the way that you want to help support, the perfectionist is to focus on their particular strength. They are very good at problem solving and fixing problems. And they want to make a positive impact in the world. So if there is a problem, for instance, at work, or in a relationship, instead of telling them how they did everything wrong, you focus instead on okay, I know you're good at fixing problems, I know that you have a solution. What do you really think we should do? What are your thoughts about solving this issue? So you turn it on to them as a way of getting them involved? And they will definitely be excited to do that, because that's where they excel. So if you're having a problem, instead of saying, you're the problem, say, hey, I think we have a problem, can you help me fix it? Does that make sense?

Marisa Huston  11:47  
It totally does. And so you're asking them to help you and they love that because they want to make a difference. And so it just all ties together.

Margot Zaher  12:42  
Right. Because the other name for the perfectionist is the reformer. So they're always trying to make things better. Anyway, naturally, they always find different, exciting ways to make things better. So they want to be empowered in that way. So if for instance, you work with a perfectionist, if you can empower them, and really ask their advice and ask for their support, they will really shine and be more inspired.

Marisa Huston  13:04  
Can a perfectionist also be somebody who perhaps is messy? Like maybe they want to make things better but then, for example, they leave things on the table, or they're always thinking about different things all the time. Like, you know, we might not consider that a perfectionist because they're messy. We're saying if they're a perfectionist, everything has to be perfect. Could there be a conflict there?

Margot Zaher  13:25  
So this is a really interesting question you bring up. There definitely are certain types of perfectionist that are very neat and clean and would never leave anything messy. And yet there are other types that do show up as messy. Their sense of doing the right thing doesn't always show up in the same area. So this is an example of how the outward behavior does not show if you're actually a type one. It's the inner drive. To do the right thing shows up differently for different type ones in the Enneagram. Cause some of them are very immaculate, like their house is totally spotless, and other type ones will be messy actually in their physical environment, but they won't be messy in other areas. They will be very structured.

Marisa Huston  14:08  
That is so interesting. And I think that that's a great example of how we can misinterpret a person and not really realize that they still are perfectionist, even though they don't fit that mold in our minds.

Margot Zaher  14:19  
Right. That's the dangerous thing with the Enneagram. Is because it's really fun for a lot of people, they go around sometimes saying, oh, I think you're this I think you're that and they may be wrong. They just are looking at some of the outward stuff that they see. The outward behaviors.

Marisa Huston  14:33  
Yeah. And it's a lot deeper than that. What's another popular type that you can share with us? 

Margot Zaher  14:38  
Well, one of the most popular types in the United States is type six, which is called the loyal skeptic. So their core drive is that they're really looking to gain support and avoid lack of support. They seek the support through being very loyal to other people. They seek feedback and building strong, stable relationships. They really are team players. So that's an example of kind of their core drive. That's what's important to them.

So they work well with other people.

They do work really well with other people. However, the type six is complicated. There are certain types that are very focused on making a difference in the world too, but doing this as a way of kind of defending the underdog, and those types can be a little bit more, I would say authoritarian. They can be more in a leadership position. So there's two types, technically, of the six. They have what's called a counter phobic type, which is basically they don't have a sense of fear in the world and so they go out there, and they defend the underdogs. We see a lot of that in policemen and firefighters, and they're actually defending the cause. But the whole point is, they're really wanting to create this really stable connection relationships and protect others. And then there's the counter phobic six, which is they have a sense of fear, because this is a type that's driven by fear. Every single type has something that drives them. So the type six actually and the need for security is driving them and the fears behind that. And so the way that they operate is that they tried to gain support in the world. They tried to get feedback and try to really establish a way of interacting with people that they can feel supported, so that that sense of security can be met. There are nine different Enneagram types and there are also nine different levels of health in each Enneagram type. As you evolve, there are lower levels of health, average levels, and really super healthy levels. So the great thing about the Enneagram is that it's not something that you're like stuck in a certain behavior pattern. You can use it for growth and evolution and you can see how your type can actually evolve. And so for instance, a loyal skeptic that may be on the lower functioning levels may be totally paralyzed by fear. When they get to the higher functioning levels, by doing some work on themselves, they come to a place of faith. Having faith in the world, faith in the universe. Their evolutionary path is actually to go from being fearful of the world and not trusting it to have faith in the world, faith in themselves. 

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Marisa Huston  17:46  
I love the fact that it's not just the test. Here's the result. and off you go. It's really about understanding yourself and the people around you so that you can develop and grow, which is really the goal. That's what we want to do as individuals. We want to better ourselves in some capacity.

Margot Zaher  18:02  
Yes, that's exactly it. That's why I use the Enneagram as a relationship and life coach, it's to support people in evolving in their evolution in their relationships, and in their lives. And so the Enneagram when you know, what your Enneagram drive is like what your type is, you're able to see the different areas where you need to work on shifting some of your patterns, your behaviors, and basically the fears that are driving those kind of unhealthy patterns and the belief systems. So I help people shift those basically.

Marisa Huston  18:34  
Since we talked about the perfectionist, and we talked about the loyal skeptic, let's share with our listeners a quick example of how those two types interact with each other.

Margot Zaher  18:45  
First of all, their communication watch out basically is don't focus on fear, and why they should not have fears. So the thing about the loyal skeptic is that fear will come up and they naturally have fears and they naturally have fear about things happening. And so that puts them into a place of planning. And if somebody comes back and says to them like, well, you shouldn't be afraid of that. Why are you afraid this could happen? Then that could be very triggering for somebody who is in a fear space. That doesn't work very well. So instead of saying you shouldn't be afraid, I don't get why you're afraid this is silly, you're afraid. It's better to do a communication connector of offering support. Because what the six is really looking for is to be supported. Better to say, hey, how can I support you here? How can I help you in this situation? I'm going to help you create a plan that would make you feel good. That's the example of how to have healthier communication with a six. Kind of that validation statement that they need is simply everything's okay here, you are supported. We can work together and make sure that you get what you need here.

Marisa Huston  19:48  
Between the perfectionist and the loyal skeptic, they obviously have very different focuses. So how do they interact with each other? 

Margot Zaher  19:55  
The good news about this is that both of them care a lot about following the rules and doing the right thing, right? So the perfectionist wants to do the right thing and for the reason they want to make a positive impact on the world. The six in the loyal skeptic world wants to do the right thing to gain the support of others and to make sure that everybody quote unquote, is safe and secure. So they're doing it out of a place of avoiding bad situations happening, where the one is actually doing it, basically, to enhance positive impact. That's kind of where they meet naturally. Does that make sense?

Marisa Huston  20:34  
You're basically saying, Margot, that you're looking for a commonality between the two, something that they both value?

Margot Zaher  20:41  
Yeah. So basically, when I do the Enneagram matrix for people, I take two types, and I show them first how they naturally work well together. This is kind of naturally how they work well together. And then I talk also about the watch outs. So I was giving the sense that they naturally have this in common, this way of wanting to kind of follow the rules and do the right thing. And then going into a little bit more like personalizing it a little. The big strength of the one for the six is that the one can really help the six create more structure routines that gets them out of procrastination due to fear. So the one is really structured and routine and likes to make sure things happen. And the six can get paralyzed by fear, right? So that's one way that the perfectionist can really help the loyal skeptic.

Marisa Huston  21:27  
Through that exercise alone and just having an understanding through this example, you could really see how they can support each other, like you said.

Margot Zaher  21:36  
There's a lot more examples. The six's impact on the one. So the six can actually positively impact the one too. And for the six is loyalty and devotion to the partner. The sixes are very loyal in relationships. They can really help the one realize that love does not have to be earned. They don't have to keep proving themselves, keep proving that they are such a good person that they deserve to be loved. They can relax more. Because many perfections get themselves in this place of having to prove that they deserve to be loved. So the six can really help with that.

Marisa Huston  22:08  
They each have qualities that kind of overlap in a sense that they both want certain things, but then they do it in different ways. And so really understanding, okay, what can one do to help six and what can six do to help one helps clarify, alright, what are some things that I can incorporate in my habits or the way I handle this relationship so that we can work more cohesively and not have as much conflict as we've been having?

Margot Zaher  22:34  
That's a great way of saying it. To go to the watch outs really quickly, I'll give you just a couple of them for these two types. The one really needs to watch out about judging or trying to control the six. In general, that's the challenge with the one. And that can make the six want to hide and not fully show up in the relationship because they don't want to be judged. Because they're trying to be supported at all cost, they may be like, oh, I don't want to show this part of myself, because you're going to judge me. So that can create issues in a relationship when you start hiding. These very simple ways of interacting without realizing it, we trigger our partner. The other way around, the watch out then is that, if the six falsely accuses the one of not being in integrity, that's a huge trigger for a one. So integrity is really important for one and if a six says even kind of just offhandedly, oh, you know, I can't believe you didn't show up the way you're supposed to for this. Or why did you do that when you told me you're going to do XYZ? They can get really triggered. So falsely accusing a one is a really bad idea.

Marisa Huston  23:39  
That's why it's so important to really understand. And I think that's part of the frustration, when we have any kind of relationship. Let's say you're very upfront person, where you just say it like it is. You feel it's important to be honest and true and the other person, for lack of a better word likes to cover things up. Well, then the other person will easily get offended. And so you have to understand that in order for you to then make adjustments as needed.

Margot Zaher  24:04  
We all have communication styles. There are different types of the Enneagram that are very direct, this is like it is, and other types that are kind of beat around the bush, they actually don't express themselves directly at all. And if those two types get together, they can be very annoying. There's a very direct type and a very indirect type. And when they meet each other, they actually can get mad at each other because one's like, whoa, you're way too direct. I can't believe you just said that to me, and they get offended. And the other ones like why don't you just tell me what you're really thinking? That's a very simple example.

Marisa Huston  24:32  
Yeah, no, it's true. And it even applies to cultures. That's why the Enneagram is so helpful because it helps you really dig deep into it on your level. But let's just assume where we're just generalizing right now. Culturally, Americans tend to be more direct. And so when they end up visiting countries where they're not that way, there's a frustration level that happens because they're like, why can't they just tell me what they're thinking?

Margot Zaher  24:54  
Right. Well, and actually, that brings us to this really interesting fun fact about countries cultures, that they have and can be categorized by Enneagram type. And that really explains a lot of why there are so many different kinds of cultures and where you can make so many communication gaps by going to a different country. For instance, the US has a type three culture. The type three quickly and the Enneagram is the achiever. So it's a lot about achieving and excelling and being successful. And they do tend to be more direct, actually, that type because they're trying to accomplish things get stuff done. So you're not going to mess around and be quite as eloquent. Where if you go into France is a type four, which is called either the individualist or the hopeless, romantic, and it's a lot based on more of that artistic, sensual part of life. It's based on really getting in touch with that richness of life, those beautiful aspects that call forth a lot of strong emotions, because the four it has a strong emotional component. Anyway, the five has kind of the romantic energy the type four has. So, I can go on and on about that the Canadians are interesting, because they're right next to us, you know, in the United States, and they're a type nine. And that type nine is also known as the peacemaker, or the mediator. And they tend to be that way, even in communication. A lot more looking at both sides of the equation, being able to sort of mediate and not really taking strong, strong stances on things.

Marisa Huston  26:20  
That's so fascinating. If we don't take the time to really understand and analyze and figure out okay, what is the solution, then we can't improve. Basically, we're spinning our wheels, and it gets frustrating, because every day, you're kind of waking up with your partner, or even friendships or any sort of relationship in your life and you're going here we go again. We're going to end up fighting, we're going to end up arguing, and I don't know how to deal with this. And it's this endless cycle of frustration.

Margot Zaher  26:45  
Right. Because we keep trying to do the same old patterns over and over without looking at the root. Like what's really causing this pattern. We just hope it's going to change somehow.

Marisa Huston  26:53  
Yeah, we need clarity. And that is where you come in. Margo, would you let our listeners know how they can reach you and avail of the services that you offer?

Margot Zaher  27:02  
Yes, one of the things that I specialize in as a certified Enneagram coach and relationship coach is Enneagram coaching packages. So I do that both for individuals and couples. I do the Enneagram typing session for you and Enneagram analysis for you so that you can understand why you and your partner behave your different ways. And also as an individual, if you're not in a relationship, who you are naturally in a relationship, and what kind of relationship might work best for you. And all types can work well for you. But there's definitely types that might be easier for you. And also why you may not be successful in relationships in the past. Kind of some of the patterns you may have fallen into that weren't working for you, and why you might have self sabotage yourself.

Marisa Huston  27:43  
And I'm sure many of us can relate. I think we've all experienced that at one point or another.

Margot Zaher  27:48  
Right. And so for those Enneagram packages, you can go on my website, www.margotzaher.com and look at the Enneagram link there. I am offering a special $50 discount on any of my Enneagram coaching packages if you reference this particular podcast.  Because I would absolutely love to help you figure out what type you are on the Enneagram. And if you think you know, to confirm what type you are educate you on the Enneagram and then to do an Enneagram analysis with you to figure out your own communication watch out and communication enhancers or connectors in your relationships.

Marisa Huston  28:26  
I was just thinking Margo, that it might be even a surprise if our listeners go in and take an Enneagram test online, and then realize after going through it with you, how they might have been completely off. Like it wasn't even anything close to what they really are.

Margot Zaher  28:42  
Right? And actually, what's funny is that that happens a lot. People come to me and said, oh, I thought I was this but actually were this and I understand now why what the difference was. That they get it why they mistyped themselves. But I also have some of the other day and I thought this was really funny. He was part of a couple. He said at the end of our session together, he's like okay. I really believe you. I actually went online, took a test and determined what number I was anyway, but I wanted to make sure that you knew what you were doing. And he was just testing me kind of. But he's said now I really understand that I am this type. And that when I first found out I was that type, I rejected it and thought this can't be true. Like, I don't want this to be true about me. Because one of the things that happens for people when they discover their Enneagram type is you have to face sometimes that there are behavior patterns you don't like and your ego might not like to know that. And so there's sometimes some hard moments where you're like. Is that really true about me? You only have one core number. You either are core type one, a core type six, a core type eight, whatever number. However, you have a wing. So let's imagine that you're type one. You could have a nine as your core wing, which is the mediator, which would make you more into actually the reform side of things, wanting to mediate to make a positive impact on the world. You will look a little bit like a nine in different areas of your life. So that's why you could have two numbers that are fairly high when you Take an Enneagram test. Also, what happens is that you move to different parts of the Enneagram. You have what's called an integration point and a disintegration point. So if you are type one, you can move to type seven, for instance. And even when you see this, like the actual picture, the Enneagram, it makes sense. And that's why it has lines on it. It has this integration is disintegration lines. And so if you're type one, you move to type seven, the seven is the enthusiast on the Enneagram, the adventurer. So type one, to get them more into their power, that's the integration space, it's important for them to undertake activities that get them out of their box, get them out of structure that get them out in the world, and really getting into that juiciness of life, that fun in life, the adventure life. And so that is a really healthy place for one to actually go visit on the Enneagram.

Marisa Huston  30:50  
Based on that if you are, let's say a perfectionist, but then you realize, I don't like that. I would rather be an adventurous person. Have you ever had clients that said, you know, can you help me be more of this other person? Is that something that you can help them get to if they want to explore different types more in their lives, so that they're not so boxed into what they are comfortable with? 

Margot Zaher  31:14  
Yeah, that's a really great question. So how it works is that, let's pick a type one. The more you can collapse, the polarity. And now what does that really mean? You have a polarity that is driving you in every type. So the polarity in the perfectionist is, I want to do the right thing at all cost, I have to avoid doing the wrong thing, I need to be a good person, I've got to avoid being a bad person. What I say collapse is, I work with people to actually help them shift past experiences, beliefs, limiting factors that have caused them to really be in this box. So they can get out of their box and be a little bit collapsed, meaning it's not so strong this desire, this core drive isn't so gripping to them. That's one thing that helps them move to a different type on the Enneagram to express other aspects of themselves. That and also awareness. I have a lot of people I work with, especially like in a couple, if it looks like their relationship is suffering, because they're in a very strict rigid way of being with each other. You know what I mean? It's like no fun. Let's just accomplish everything. We need to accomplish, accomplish accomplish as a couple. Then I help them actually work on seeing if they can access type seven, if they naturally go to type seven on the Enneagram. Like the one would go to type seven, a six would go to type seven also. So if you have a one and six again in a relationship, a type seven is the perfect place and happens to be in my relationship with my partner. For us to meet, we meet in type seven to really focus on fun on an adventure, scheduling you know, a fun trip, doing something fun, like a midnight hike, going ice skating. To do those kinds of activities that really helps the relationship.

Marisa Huston  32:51  
It's not necessarily, okay, there's a certain type that's better than another. Essentially, you're not saying that there is a bad type. Everybody that's in here, we need to get them out of here. It's more accepting where you're at and then deciding with your help, do I want to continue down that path? Or do I want to strengthen that more? Or do I want to perhaps look at other types that I can incorporate in my life to enhance my relationships and my own life in general.

Margot Zaher  33:18  
Maybe the way to say it is that when you have the awareness of your type, and how it's impacting you, you then can consciously choose to embody more of the positive aspects of your type. Every single type has strengths and every single type has challenges or weaknesses that they are working on dissolving or being able to have a healthier relationship with. And then in that type, you can then consciously choose to integrate more of your strengths by accessing your integration point on the Enneagram, by using certain tools to do that, and that's what I do with my clients.

Marisa Huston  33:56  
That makes total sense, Margo, this tool I think is just one tool in your toolbox that can help you get to where you want to go. And I really appreciate you explaining this to us and helping us with this resource.

Margot Zaher  34:08  
Thank you so much for having me today. The Enneagram has been my passion since 2003 when I discovered it. And I think it's such a great shortcut to understanding ourselves and others and creating more connection. Which is really my mission in my life is to create more connection and understanding between people.

Marisa Huston  34:26  
That's a wrap for this episode of Live Blissed Out. Thanks to Margot Zaher for joining us and thanks for listening. If you have a question or comment for a future episode, all you have to do is go to www.speak pipe.com/lbovm or click the link in the show notes to leave a brief audio message. If you find value in our show, please visit www.liveblissedout.com to reach out, subscribe and share on social media. This show is made possible through listeners like you. Thank you. So long for now and remember to keep moving forward!